For the Curious! and Points of Intersection

The most important thing to be in life, is curious.” -Neil DeGrasse Tyson

“For the curious learner, these are the best of times because your ability to constantly refresh your knowledge with either podcasts or lectures that are online is better than ever.” -Bill Gates

Join me in staying curious, in the modern world!

Apple Podcasts:
Youtube (Ep 4 and on):

Now featuring commentaries following episodes of For the Curious!

We are all on a journey. We seek truth, trying to make sense of the world around us – attempting to understand it’s complexity. The complexity within us is not the least of these, and the complexity of the universe’s origins can be dumbfounding. Join me as I delve into these complexities through conversation and inquiry, using the tools of reason and faith.

Apple Podcasts:
Youtube: Coming soon! 

Show Notes for the first 10 episodes below:

Ep. 10 – What Matters Now – abortion and Christianity, Destiny, & Pending Impeachment

2:15 “OPINION: No, You Cannot Be a ‘Pro-Choice’ Christian” by Courtney Kirchoff

3:20 Steven Crowder

4:45 Abby, and all of us, are a little shaky in this episode. It was the first time I had my guests and I wear headphones. I think this improved sound quality some, but all of were working in mic technique! Hopefully it’s not too distracting.

6:45 Dogmatic: asserting one’s opinion in a dictatorial manner. For some reason, this is the one vocabulary word from AP Language and Composition I remember from high school. Why? Your guess is as good as mine.

11:45 For a brief history of the Pro-Life movement in the US, see here.

13:15 Jack Kemp, ma boi.

18:30 A full, nuanced view of the effects of Prohibition.

19:30 “Illegal abortions” data

22:10 Those with Spotify Premium should hear a clip of Drake’s song “God’s Plan.” To those who don’t sing/rap it yourself for full effect.

23:55 Calvinism and Scientific Determinism, respectively.

26:21 Again, Calvinism (see above). Some Presbyterian churches, in practice.

27:26 A biblical look at predestination “v.s.” free will

27:31 Compatiblism, in classic philosophy

27:56 Nope. Here are the exact sketches I showed Cam as we sat there. The cover of this podcast is a simplified version, and a “professional” version will be upcoming. Possibly for the cover of a book…

31:06 The Donald Miller quote is from A Million Miles in a Thousand Years: What I Learned While Editing My Life. I recommend the book and Miller’s other work, especially Blue Like Jazz.

32:19 For the astute listener: yes, I do think Abby and I have differing views on this. And that’s OK! We would all do better with some intellectual humility that causes us to say “I don’t know” more often.

40:51 This ladder idea actually came from Stephen Covey originally.

43:21 Correction: God allows the Devil to kill Job’s family

47:55 CS Lewis’ spiritual autobiography is one I highly recommend.

48:45 Children’s National Hospital in Washington, DC. Abby, Cam, and I missed a few words in here. Mic technique improving…

50:05 Robert Sapolsky’s book Behave, again, was instrumental to my recent education on human evolution. I recently saw the book featured as one that Bill Gates was reading (Inside Bill’s Brain, on Netflix).

53:45 Jesus’ Parable of the Talents, the midsection of this chapter.

55:00 The Mueller Report

55:45 Quid Pro Quo, not “Quo Quid Pro.” Oops.

58:00 They are definitely people that like Trump, in case this part of the conversation was confusing.

62:30 Lori Loughlin’s (and others’) recent history

65:00 An incredible movie. For the record, I think Batman Begins slightly edges it in quality. But the whole trilogy in amazing. Thank you, Christopher Nolan, thank you. Additional reading, for those interested: Batman and Philosophy: The Dark Knight of the Soul.

68:45 A refreshingly apolitical look at Obama’s time in office and life outside of it.

Ep. 9 – F&NSD, a Relient K Analysis, Pt. 2

*I do not own this music, and any views expressed in this podcast are not affiliated with Relient K, its members, or any record company.

0:00 All lyrics pulled from

12:00 My opinion on the topic of “making yourself” vs. “finding yourself” was recently influenced by Robert Sapolsky’s book Behave.

20:08 The valley of dry bones in Ezekiel

21:15 “Doubt” by Twenty One Pilots

23:00 Earn This site again, the source of a lot of this proposed narrative.

43:45 ” “

79:10 “I’ll Make It Up To You” by Imagine Dragons

89:10 Porn in the hands of angry Protestants…none of this is to say that the action is morally right. Rather, the question is: has the Protestant Church handled the modern near-ubiquity of porn in a helpful way, or not?

90:55 Jesus saying “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life...” (Verse 6). I once listened to a Protestant-Orthodox Jew debate. The Jewish Priest told the Protestant pastor that this phrase was the most blasphemous thing ever uttered. I had the passage tattooed on my arm a couple months prior…my feelings were mixed.

91:00 Well, not an exact quote. But unmistakably close:

“Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bares his teeth, winter meets its death,
And when he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again.”

C.S. Lewis, The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe

Ep. 8 – F&NSD, a Relient K analysis pt. 1

*I do not own this music, and any views expressed in this podcast are not affiliated with Relient K, its members, or any record company.

0:00 All lyrics pulled from

0:05 Forget And Not Slow Down, an album by Relient K

3:50 Jars of Clay, “Flood

3:55 Casting Crowns, TobyMac

5:45 “Sadie Hawkins Dance

5:55 Mhmm…Thankfully I do have a good mic that picks up humming noises. And unfortunately: dog growls, snoring, and bowel movements. I’m a limited editor, in the end.

6:45 Matt Thiessen, pronounced “Tee-Sin” (Only watch up until the point Matt says his name. The rest is uncomfortable for everyone). Kati thought this was the correct pronunciation, but I incorrectly corrected her. So we got it wrong the rest of the podcast, both episodes. My b.

11:!5 “Earn This” article, detailing (theoretical) background story of this album. Unfortunately, this link hasn’t been working the last couple times I’ve tried. Hopefully it’s up again soon.

21:30 “This Week the Trend,” “Devastation and Reform

24:30 Murphy said something along these lines. I couldn’t find the exact wording again, but you’re welcome to dive down this rabbit hole if you so choose.

24:45 Matthew 10:2-9

25:10 The quotation from CS Lewis can be found here.

26:15 Scholarly article about shared memory

27:30 Our grandpa, for the record.

30:00 Suicide prevalence post-breakups

31:40 “Can’t Complain” on Collapsible Lung album

42:25 Say Anything movie. Who am I kidding? I haven’t seen this movie, and never knew the name. I just like the idea of the scene…and who wouldn’t?

43:45 “Which to Bury; Us or the Hatchet?

45:10 You’ll have to listen to part 2 to get the full scoop on these songs 😉

52:15 Furnace noise :l The things I catch after editing…

55:45 No shade toward The Shack. I discussed it in the last podcast episode, and really appreciate the book and movie.

57:50 More “Thee-Sin” where “Tee-Sin” belongs…oopsy.

60:00 “God” on Air for Free. “Prodigal” is later in the album, but “Elephant Parade” is the song after. Both possibly critique church culture/faith systems.

66:50 “Legacy” by Eminem. I wasn’t joking about any of this. This was my most listened-to song my senior year, and I was an angry child. Oh, and Brian Dawkins was the man.

Ep. 7 – Jared & Jonah – the real story behind The Shack, future parenting, and the history of Christianity in America

12:30 Jared’s dad

13:30 The Shack, book and movie

21:30 The Passion of the Christ

22:00 Brad Cummings and Wayne Jacobson’s podcast: The God Journey

29:00 Jared’s podcast with his friend Nolan

31:45 Washington, DC neighborhoods, including Anacostia in the SE and Columbia Heights in the upper central area. Arlington is directly West of the District.

Image result for washington dc neighborhoods,_D.C.
I usually stear far clear of Wikipedia…but it’s just a picture, aye?

35:00 Alcohol use in DC

41:00 Protégé Program

50:10 Obviously Bill Hybels had some trangressions in the last few years…we can appreciate the art without always appreciating the artist.

61:45 Leadership Institute

64:15 I’m not sure if Jared rehearsed GW’s words from memory, or if he had it pulled up on his laptop. We may never know…

66:15 The Founders’ Bible

66:30 Author David Barton

70:15 “Jefferson Bible

71:30 Again, I’m leaning toward believing that he’s quoting this stuff from memory. I for one am impressed.

74:15 The Jefferson Lies by David Barton

Ep. 6 – Back At It Again – story, black culture, and NBA talk w/ Dakota Patton

We went to high school right next to a Mormon church. I was always curious about their beliefs. I had quite a few Mormon friends and even went to Mormon Prom my junior year. Yeah. Years later, I read the Book of Mormon, and The Book of Mormon: A Biography. I would not recommend the first, and would highly recommend the latter. Ask me about it sometime, if you’re curious…or just go check out my Goodreads reviews.

Elitch Gardens, theme park in Denver

Brophy Prep

These conversations so far, mixed with my interactions at Lago Vista Neighbor, remind me that we never know a kid’s full situation relating to not doing well in school…assuming grace and attempting understanding are always great options.

Jeremy Bloom, Devon Beitzel, Logan Stewart (and a friend of his who also went to our high school, and was my neighbor, Jordan Kress, now plays at University of New Mexico.)

Semi-reputable look at delayed grief or “incomplete grief

Kobe Bryant quote about basketball as a counselor from Muse

That was a bad joke about Johnson & Wales. They’re legit, see?

We speak mostly anecdotally about gang life. There have been plenty of official studies and ethnographies done about gang life–this does not represent one of them. This is conversational.

Study on survival necessities, stealing

I believe I read about the universals of murder and adultery in an Anthropology textbook in college; here’s some more commentary on moral universals.

First religions…multiple opinions here. We use assumptions and inferences, mostly.

Animal morality…also differing opinions. Here’s one analysis.

A previously cited book by Robert Sapolsky, Behave, has very intriguing commentary on primate morality. Studies have been done on monkeys getting grapes, cucumbers, or celery. Certain monkeys were allowed to choose which of the three other monkeys got…here’s the multi-faceted conclusion Sapolsky reaches:

Really interesting evidence for a nonhuman sense of justice comes in a small side study in a Brosnan/de Wall paper. Back to the two monkeys getting cucumbers for work. Suddenly one guy gets shifted to grapes. As we saw, the one still getting the cucumber refuses to work. Fascinatingly, the grape mogul often refuses as well.
What is this? Solidarity?
…Given the relatively limited reasoning capacities of monkeys, these finding support the importance of social institutionism. De Waal perceives even deeper implications–the roots of human morality are older than our cultural institutions, than our laws and sermons. Rather than human morality being spiritually transcendent (enter deities, stage right), it transcends our species boundaries.”

Pg. 487. Paper cited: F. De Waal and S. Macedonia, Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved (Princeton, NJ: Princeton Science Library, 2009).

Morality also became conversational here–and we clearly don’t hold the same opinions on it. But we have the conversation!

Moral relativism has varying degrees…I like the middle view anthropologically: We should consider a culture by its own standards, and assume equal morality until we see evidence for otherwise.

Lecrae talks gangs as support systems, drugs from other countries in his song “Gangland

A continuing theme for this episode: we speak conversationally, and experientially, about racism. We have different opinions, and none of it is irrefutable (don’t roast us for this conversation, dialogue with us!).

Again, Us/Theming referenced from Robert Sapolsky’s Behave

Racism and prejudice, defined

MLK and Malcom X dichotomy discussed

Autobiography of Malcom X As Told To Alex Haley

Bill Simmons Show again. I recommend his Book of Basketball, and I’m listening to his recently released new podcast, Book of Basketball 2.0. Hit me up, Bill. Let’s chat.

Also useful to my following of the NBA without a cable subscription:

I don’t know if you could hear this, but I thought it was pretty clever: Lebron James is possibly the GOAT-OAT (Greatest of all Time, of all Time). Very possibly.

I think I got that backwards. KD said “snakes in the grass” after him and CJ McCollum had beef following a McCollum podcast episode.

In midst of basketball, I managed to slip in prefrontal cortex talk. If interested

I misunderstood “mom” comment–here’s the story on it. Note the second part of the article, which exposes the whole thing as a probable sham. Not “confirmed” after all…hard to tell what’s real when everything’s online, when there’s a bunch of guys in their moms’ basements posing as the defenseless Delonte West…

Ep. 5 – Cam the man – NM & CO, engineering, and big questions of faith

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Map of CO, including Littleton and Colorado Springs (for my benefit as much as everyone else’s):

This isn’t exactly what Cameron references, but is related to satellites colliding: Air Force’s Space Fence

Trump: An American Dream, on Netflix

Behave: The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst by Robert M. Sapolsky

Jordan Peterson‘s and Sam Harris‘s podcasts

Rates of Christianity in Western Europe and the United States, a bit more nuanced than I knew of at the time of recording…and Cam was spot on!

Pastor Matt Clark at University Church of Christ, Las Cruces (scroll down a little)

My Bright Abyss by Christian Wiman

Messianic Secret

I misunderstood the question about the Mark of the Beast (referring to Revelation 13:16-18) and danced around it. Sorry about the verbal gymnastics; I do not believe that this refers to homosexuality at all

Verses about homosexuality in Romans and Leviticus

Verses in Leviticus about not eating certain animals, verse in 1 Timothy about ban being lifted (found other places in NT also)

Ed Mylett episode about pastor’s suicide

Bonhoeffer: Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy by Eric Metaxas

More information on the Catholic belief on suicide

WebMD…not even once.

Ep. 4 – Aben tryin’ to tell ya – language, culture, adoption, and fight songs w/ Aben Miller

New Mexico State University’s official fight song

Aguascalientes, Mexico (including map)

Clarification: LDS members consider themselves Christian. The correct designation for the missionaries Aben mentions, as he says, is “Protestant Christians.”

The Hobbit by JRR Tolkien

Askew (adj): not in a straight or level position. (Search “askew” on Google…hehe)

Nicholas Sparks, author

One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García Márquez

Confessions by St. Augustine

Martin Luther’s had some very interesting commentary on being “in the world.” He spent time as a solitary monk, then came to believe that he must live in the world, as part of society, in order to influence it. Recommended read: Luther: Man Between God and the Devil by Heiko A. Oberman

Crito by Plato. I pronounced the man’s name incorrectly. Also giving background on Socrate’s lead-up to death is Plato’s Apology.

Ep. 3 – the kids’ table – colorado Roots, faith, kanye, and toe tats

Dick Foth (not “Foof”), pastor at Timberline Church

Correct, most recent population estimates: Colorado Springs 472,688. Loveland, CO 77,446. Des Moines, IA 216,853. Las Cruces, NM 102, 926.

Correct biography of Laura Ingells Wilder, author

Summit Ministries, Evangel University, Amber Phillips

Lee University

More commentary on Joker movie (2019); Gabby references Dark Knight (2008)

Micah’s Cool Country Playlist

Ed Sheeran‘s Spotify profile, just to show that he’s #1 and I wasn’t making that up

Roo Panes

Mumford & Sons, mewithoutYou

Jordan Peterson’s podcast, most recent book

Kanye West’s JESUS IS KING album, AppleMusic interview with Zane Lowe

Gabby said that a picture of Abby’s toe tattoo would be in the show notes…still working on this.


Demon Hunter, “Death

ep. 2 – wife makes right – race relations, family background, and recent washington dc experiences

Music in episode: I’ll Be Good (Instrumental Version) by Love Beans


Lago Vista Neighbor:

Ep. 1 – NCC Protege – with Joel Buckner, Protege Director and Worship Leader

Music in episode: Runnin and Air for Free, both by Relient K (*I don’t believe these are playing through listens on Spotify. Again, as I go, I’ll work out these kinks)

National Community Church:

Protege Program: